Comments on: Graded Browser Support Update: Q3 2009 http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2009/07/02/gbs-update-20090702/ The official blog of the YUI Project. Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:21:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Eric Miraglia http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2009/07/02/gbs-update-20090702/comment-page-1/#comment-584766 Eric Miraglia Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:51:28 +0000 http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/?p=388#comment-584766 Dave -- It's a question of return on your investment of testing resources. Mozilla browsers on Linux are very similar to their Mac/Windows counterparts -- if you're testing the latter, you're getting some implicit coverage of the former. Again, GBS is not a scorecard for browser quality...it's a strategy for supporting users by maximizing the value of testing resources. -Eric Dave –

It’s a question of return on your investment of testing resources. Mozilla browsers on Linux are very similar to their Mac/Windows counterparts — if you’re testing the latter, you’re getting some implicit coverage of the former. Again, GBS is not a scorecard for browser quality…it’s a strategy for supporting users by maximizing the value of testing resources.

-Eric

]]> By: Dave Cuthbert http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2009/07/02/gbs-update-20090702/comment-page-1/#comment-584763 Dave Cuthbert Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:15:26 +0000 http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/?p=388#comment-584763 No linux/browser combinations? Perhaps it's covered elsewhere, but I don't see a reason why linux would be left off the list on the GBS page. No linux/browser combinations? Perhaps it’s covered elsewhere, but I don’t see a reason why linux would be left off the list on the GBS page.

]]> By: Eric Miraglia http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2009/07/02/gbs-update-20090702/comment-page-1/#comment-582713 Eric Miraglia Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:14:26 +0000 http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/?p=388#comment-582713 @Jeremy -- No one wants to stop supporting IE6 more than we do. The rationale here isn't we like IE6 or what it involves, but rather that we respect the needs of the users who are stuck on IE6. It's a huge group of users, and many of them are not able to upgrade -- for a variety of reasons. GBS is a testing strategy, not a report card. IE6 is still deserving of A-grade attention and QA cycles. What Twitter and others have been doing in trying to hasten the migration of users off of IE6 is laudable...hopefully we'll see more of that and an acceleration in the decrease in IE6 use. -Eric @Jeremy — No one wants to stop supporting IE6 more than we do. The rationale here isn’t we like IE6 or what it involves, but rather that we respect the needs of the users who are stuck on IE6. It’s a huge group of users, and many of them are not able to upgrade — for a variety of reasons. GBS is a testing strategy, not a report card. IE6 is still deserving of A-grade attention and QA cycles. What Twitter and others have been doing in trying to hasten the migration of users off of IE6 is laudable…hopefully we’ll see more of that and an acceleration in the decrease in IE6 use. -Eric

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2009/07/02/gbs-update-20090702/comment-page-1/#comment-582708 Jeremy Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:19:48 +0000 http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/?p=388#comment-582708 Why is it that IE6 (at 8 years of age) is still A-grade, but you deprecate Firefox 3 immediately upon the release of 3.5? At what point will you finally deprecate IE6 and allow YUI to progress in areas like fixed positioning? Not that I don't appreciate all of your hard work - just musing on the fairness of the situation. Why is it that IE6 (at 8 years of age) is still A-grade, but you deprecate Firefox 3 immediately upon the release of 3.5? At what point will you finally deprecate IE6 and allow YUI to progress in areas like fixed positioning?

Not that I don’t appreciate all of your hard work – just musing on the fairness of the situation.

]]> By: Eric Miraglia http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2009/07/02/gbs-update-20090702/comment-page-1/#comment-582309 Eric Miraglia Sun, 05 Jul 2009 07:35:41 +0000 http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/?p=388#comment-582309 Mitch -- To clarify, we see a sub-1% marketshare for Opera on the Yahoo network in the US. I pointed to StatCounter stats for Russia, for which we don't have reliable internal data. -Eric Mitch — To clarify, we see a sub-1% marketshare for Opera on the Yahoo network in the US. I pointed to StatCounter stats for Russia, for which we don’t have reliable internal data. -Eric

]]> By: Mitch R. http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2009/07/02/gbs-update-20090702/comment-page-1/#comment-582245 Mitch R. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:40:53 +0000 http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/?p=388#comment-582245 How come you claim a sub-1% global market share for Opera, while your source (StatCounter) places it at <a href="http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-200902-200906-bar" rel="nofollow">above 3% globally</a> (and <a href="http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-eu-monthly-200902-200906-bar" rel="nofollow">8% in Europe</a>)? How come you claim a sub-1% global market share for Opera, while your source (StatCounter) places it at above 3% globally (and 8% in Europe)?

]]> By: Jason Huck http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2009/07/02/gbs-update-20090702/comment-page-1/#comment-582226 Jason Huck Fri, 03 Jul 2009 00:33:37 +0000 http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/?p=388#comment-582226 Just to clarify, as I think Eric understood, I'm not questioning the _rationale_ behind Yahoo's QA strategy. The sad truth is that, in most cases, we have no choice but to continue supporting IE6 for the foreseeable future. However, IMO, when someone with Yahoo's influence publishes a table like this every quarter and labels certain browsers as "A-Grade", "C-Grade", etc., it's those labels, and the obvious connotations that people derive from them, that persist; the intent behind the data is lost on many. That's only compounded by the fact that there is no _definitive_ counterpart to this list; something that IS, in fact, a rating of a browser's standards support, performance, and innovation -- not just for developers, but for end users. The closest thing I can think of would be ACID test scores, but that's not a complete evaluation and doesn't provide specific recommendations. It might be interesting to see an organization such as Yahoo! establish evaluation criteria for rating browsers on actual merit instead of unfortunate circumstance -- not as part of a QA strategy, but to help drive adoption. - jason Just to clarify, as I think Eric understood, I’m not questioning the _rationale_ behind Yahoo’s QA strategy. The sad truth is that, in most cases, we have no choice but to continue supporting IE6 for the foreseeable future.

However, IMO, when someone with Yahoo’s influence publishes a table like this every quarter and labels certain browsers as “A-Grade”, “C-Grade”, etc., it’s those labels, and the obvious connotations that people derive from them, that persist; the intent behind the data is lost on many.

That’s only compounded by the fact that there is no _definitive_ counterpart to this list; something that IS, in fact, a rating of a browser’s standards support, performance, and innovation — not just for developers, but for end users. The closest thing I can think of would be ACID test scores, but that’s not a complete evaluation and doesn’t provide specific recommendations.

It might be interesting to see an organization such as Yahoo! establish evaluation criteria for rating browsers on actual merit instead of unfortunate circumstance — not as part of a QA strategy, but to help drive adoption.

- jason

]]> By: Emily http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2009/07/02/gbs-update-20090702/comment-page-1/#comment-582224 Emily Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:55:56 +0000 http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/?p=388#comment-582224 If you look at <em>StatCounter’s Global Stats</em> for the last month, you will see that the developer preview of <em>Opera Unite</em> really spiked Opera’s market share! ;) At least in Europe. If you look at StatCounter’s Global Stats for the last month, you will see that the developer preview of Opera Unite really spiked Opera’s market share! ;) At least in Europe.

]]> By: Nolan Caudill http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2009/07/02/gbs-update-20090702/comment-page-1/#comment-582222 Nolan Caudill Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:43:50 +0000 http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/?p=388#comment-582222 I started writing a comment for this post, but it got a smidge lengthy, so I finished it up <a href="http://nolancaudill.com/index.php/2009/07/02/ie6-will-never-go-away-it-seems/" rel="nofollow">here</a>. I started writing a comment for this post, but it got a smidge lengthy, so I finished it up here.

]]> By: Eric Miraglia http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2009/07/02/gbs-update-20090702/comment-page-1/#comment-582220 Eric Miraglia Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:29:38 +0000 http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/?p=388#comment-582220 Josh - Capability and marketshare are both part of the equation. Safari on iPhone OS is a complicated case. In our data, this browser does not yet represent 1% of the market, and nowhere does it penetrate a region the way Opera does with Russia and eastern Europe. Moreover, there are common development hooks that are available on a typical desktop PC but not with a touchscreen-only interface. Does it make sense to drop this browser into the same testing matrix that you use for the big-screen browsers? I respect that not everyone's answer would be the same on this, and it's a credit to how good the iPhone is that it's even an interesting conversation. But our answer today is no -- or, at least, not yet. More on our thinking in the post itself. -Eric Josh – Capability and marketshare are both part of the equation. Safari on iPhone OS is a complicated case. In our data, this browser does not yet represent 1% of the market, and nowhere does it penetrate a region the way Opera does with Russia and eastern Europe. Moreover, there are common development hooks that are available on a typical desktop PC but not with a touchscreen-only interface. Does it make sense to drop this browser into the same testing matrix that you use for the big-screen browsers? I respect that not everyone’s answer would be the same on this, and it’s a credit to how good the iPhone is that it’s even an interesting conversation. But our answer today is no — or, at least, not yet. More on our thinking in the post itself. -Eric

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